Brakes? What brakes?

[kinggareth]

I need new brake discs and pads at the front.

My front discs have lips like Bubba's and need replacing, the pads aren't knocking on deaths door just yet, but I may as well change all at once.

I'm going to be doing a couple of track days each year, so want some good stopping power that will survive a good few prods on the middle pedal, but i also don't want to break the bank.

I need some advice regarding uprated discs and pads.

Are grooved and drilled discs worth the extra money, or should I just get some EBC standard discs?

i've heard some good and some bad about EBC greenstuff pads, but think I may avoid. i had Mintex 1144's on my old Nissan, which were great, but they're about £120 a set, which is out of the question.
Do any of you have any experience of Black Diamond pads?

[garythesnail]

Like you, I've read a fair bit of bad and good about EBC (warped discs, fade, ineffective braking from somme. . . . .and others who love 'em to bits) and would choose to avoid EBC at the moment. I've never used them myself. There are some who rate MGR's OE discs and pads very highly, discs particularly.

I've bought standard mintex disc / pad sets for both BRMs (one all round, one front only) and they perform very well . . . . . . but neither car gets track use.

I was looking at brakes for the ZS a few weeks ago and found some 1144's for ZS180 / ZR160 for £80 (can't remember where, and it's still a lot of money).

Let us know how you get on.

[Fast Alan]

Rover brakes have never really inspired me to start with,and theres a big difference between fast road and race,to do it on a budget aint gonna be easy,I used to have good rear end fun in a 2.8 Capri which I could easily get brake fade with when pushing it,a set of mintex discs and pads made things far better on road,up your budget for the track.

[kinggareth]

Increasing the budget isn't really an option. And for 2 track days a year I don't need race car brakes.
Also to be honest a bit of fade probably isn't going to spoil my fun, it'll just reduce my lap times slightly.

If i ever get serious about track work then it would be different, i'd slap on a set of multi-pot stoppers. But for now i just want reliable brakes that will still work without being warmed up on the road.

[Fast Alan]

Increasing the budget isn't really an option. And for 2 track days a year I don't need race car brakes.
Also to be honest a bit of fade probably isn't going to spoil my fun, it'll just reduce my lap times slightly.

If i ever get serious about track work then it would be different, i'd slap on a set of multi-pot stoppers. But for now i just want reliable brakes that will still work without being warmed up on the road.

get bornunder to drive in front of you that will slow you down :laugh:

[Adam]

Avoid Greenstuff like the plague. I've got them on mine and can't wait to destroy them entirely so I can change them! Brake hard once and there'll be nothing there for the next few minutes until they've cooled, bloody scary sometimes and I certainly wouldn't use them on track. I do know some ZR people that have had them completely break up as well!

On the track car we were running Yellowstuffs, which were actually very good, but not really suitable for road use.

Next up i'll be buying Mintex though for the road car as I've heard nothing but good things about them.

[Seabart]

Avoid Greenstuff like the plague.

Strange, I got them on mine and I have no problems at all with them, i found it made a lot of difference (the good way) when I switched from original ones to Green Stuff.
Last year I put my second set on...no complaints here (except from my wife who thinks I brake too late & too hard all the time :rofl:).

Am open to suggestions for other ones though as I think they have to get changed somewhere this year again.

[kinggareth]

Do you think it's worth saving money on the discs and getting plain ones instead of slotted and drilled, and spending the extra on decent pads like 1144's?

[Fast Alan]

Do you think it's worth saving money on the discs and getting plain ones instead of slotted and drilled, and spending the extra on decent pads like 1144's?

surely you wont get the heat dissipation and will glaze the surface of the pads easily :hmmm:

[BRMark]

I heard that drilled was pointless but that may just apply to road cars I'm not sure.

[Fast Alan]

I heard that drilled was pointless but that may just apply to road cars I'm not sure.

yeah its a big area maybe a decent set of Mintex pads all round,new standard discs and see how it goes,guess youll find out after a few laps

[Adam]

No real point in drilled discs. Vented and grooved are good enough.

[Fast Alan]

No real point in drilled discs. Vented and grooved are good enough.

the weight saving of the drill holes will give you 10000,000000th of a second a lap

[Adam]

the weight saving of the drill holes will give you 10000,000000th of a second a lap

My god, I have to do that NOW!!! :rofl:

Got some new bits on the track car, hopefully getting pics this weekend :D

[Fast Alan]

My god, I have to do that NOW!!! :rofl:

Got some new bits on the track car, hopefully getting pics this weekend :D

Ha ha talking of weight suppose you saw this

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/how-fat-is-your-car

[El Groover]

FWIW, I paid out a shed load for EBC drilled and grooved discs and Green Stuff pads. The pads didn't bed in at all, because by the time they were ready to use in anger - like within 100 miles - the discs "warped" (they don't actually warp, but the description is good). EBC refused to accept that they were faulty because they weren't fitted according to their instructions. No other manufacturer (that I'm aware of) has such specific fitting instructions. Eventually, bit the bullet, threw 'em in the bin and fitted Brembo's, with no silly fitting issues and superb performance. I'll never touch them again.

[Bornunder Dutchess]

On the track car we were running Yellowstuffs, which were actually very good, but not really suitable for road use.



Diddnt you tell me I had yellow somethings on mine??

[Bornunder Dutchess]

get bornunder to drive in front of you that will slow you down :laugh:

I do read these serious threads you know.

Bum-eds!

[Fast Alan]

Diddnt you tell me I had yellow somethings on mine??

He meant your dog had peed on your wheels :laugh:

I do read these serious threads you know.

Bum-eds!

Of course you do,its not that its bank holiday and nobodies written much :D

[samsexpress]

where people are saying that greenstuff are poop in which they were right, the new ones seem to be better but i still use and prefere redstuff pads coupled up to ultimax discs on my 25 which i ragged around anglesey track with very little fade which left me with huuge confidence

[kinggareth]

I didn't think you could get redstuff or yellowstuff pads for the Rover 200? At least I didn't see them as options on any of the websites i looked at?

[Fast Alan]

I didn't think you could get redstuff or yellowstuff pads for the Rover 200? At least I didn't see them as options on any of the websites i looked at?

I have red stuff on my rear brakes seem fine (I Missed bornunder) :)

[samsexpress]

oh btw i used the redstuff pads on a 620ti setup and am now using mintex extreme on my brembodge's

[Bornunder Dutchess]

I have red stuff on my rear brakes seem fine (I Missed bornunder) :)

Just not the Polo? ;)

[Fast Alan]

Just not the Polo? ;)

old car rear drum brakes no abs :thumbsdown:

[kinggareth]

If I could get redstuff pads for the 200 I reckon that's probably what I'd go for.

I think I need to get them pretty soon to make sure they'r eproperly bedded in before my track day in a couple of weeks.

[kinggareth]

Did the old 220 turbo have the same front calipers as the BRM?

Only the EBC part numbering suggests that the pads are the same.

DP815 is blackstuff for Rover 200
DP2815 is greenstuff for Rover 200
DP3815 is redstuff - but the site says only for Rover 220 turbo
DP4815 is yellowstuff - again listed only for 220 turbo

Maybe I'm wrong but that would suggest it's the same pad in different grades?

[Fast Alan]

From what Ive read EBC considered that Red Stuff pads where Unnecessary on cars with less than 155 bhp (something like that) thus they only produce them for the Turbo models,and also dont make them for AP calipers,Green stuff is considered fine for fast road and track,but dont quote me on it the whole EBC thing is mysterious

[kinggareth]

That didn't answer my question Alan!

Are the front calipers the same on 220turbo and 200BRM? If they are I can just order some redstuff for a turbo and whack those bad boys into my front brakes.

[Fast Alan]

That didn't answer my question Alan!

searching driving you nuts hehe

Mintex come out with the same pad number for both so pressumably yes

[kinggareth]

Right, despite peoples reservations about EBC I've been chatting with them about my requirements and they've been really helpful. That and they're a very reasonably price and British :)

The chap I was chatting to recommended yellowstuff pads for trackday use and assured me that they work fine for the road as well with plenty of bite even from cold.
He also said that although grooved discs have some advantages, in my situation they're probably unnecessary.

So, plain EBC discs bought, yellowstuff pads bought. I ordered them at 3pm yesterday and they arrived this morning - that's pretty good service in my book!

I just need to fit them this weekend, and probably a brake fluid change to 5.1

The destructions talk about getting the discs checked on some sort of Pro Cut Lathe to ensure they're running true. I've never done this before - has anyone else? They reckon most modern cars don't run true, so the discs might need a skim to compensate and avoid juddering after 2000-4000 miles.
Sounds like overkill to me?

[Adam]

Typical EBC, and if you don't follow their instructions to the letter and have any probs, you'll have no comeback.

We ran yellowstuffs on the track car and I really wouldn't recommend them for road use. They're quite frankly crap when cold, so please take it very easy when you first set off.

[kinggareth]

I'll have to see how it goes with road use, but i can't see them being any worse than the brakes on my cinquecento!!

Yeah, it did say the warranty is not valid if you haven't got proof that the discs have been on a Pro Cut Lathe. But to be honest I'm not that bothered, the discs were only about £40 - if they need replacing after 4000 miles, that's still 8 months use for £40!

I'll let you all know what they're like next week...

[BRMark]

I'll have to see how it goes with road use, but i can't see them being any worse than the brakes on my cinquecento!!

Yeah, it did say the warranty is not valid if you haven't got proof that the discs have been on a Pro Cut Lathe. But to be honest I'm not that bothered, the discs were only about £40 - if they need replacing after 4000 miles, that's still 8 months use for £40!

I'll let you all know what they're like next week...

Unless you're in a hedge :yikes:

Seriously though good road tests on this sort of stuff is very useful so let us know your findings Hamster! :thumbsup:

[El Groover]

May I refer my honourable friend to my earlier comments about ridiculous fitting instructions? At least you know what you are up against. Seriously, I wish you the best of luck, esp. finding a Pro Cut lathe (to fit discs FFS???).

[kinggareth]

There's a Pro Cut Lathe just round the corner from where I work. But for them to do the work would cost more than a new set of discs!

I think EBC are just setting out up front the requirements for a warranty claim that other manufacturers don't tell you until you've tried to make the claim.

[kinggareth]

Well the new discs and pads are on after a sorry couple of hours in the rain and 2 trips to halfords! A fresh new slug of 5.1 has been bled through with a little help from my glamorous assistant and a her superb brake pumping action.

I've now got 300 miles of gently gently driving to look forward to!

Happily, stopping from cold hasn't yet been an issue, and I don't think it will be since i tend to drive like an old granny!

[BRMark]

The destructions talk about getting the discs checked on some sort of Pro Cut Lathe to ensure they're running true. I've never done this before - has anyone else? They reckon most modern cars don't run true, so the discs might need a skim to compensate and avoid juddering after 2000-4000 miles.
Sounds like overkill to me?

Coming back to this as I had new Mintex discs and pads fitted in January - done about 2000 miles since then and coming down the motorway last week I noticed that I'm getting steering wheel wobble when braking from 70mph again - FFS! already after spending £300+ to get my brakes sorted. Could there be somthing in this skim lark?

I've emailed Mintex and I'm gonna go pick the brains of the guy who did the work (though I bought and supplied the parts).

[Fast Alan]

Strange you should have that if it is the brakes doing it,I would be surprised,did the fitter clean the hub surface thoroughly before putting the discs on ? have you had all wheels tyres checked to see if theres perhaps a warp in those.I can brake at speeds of around 90 without a problem on my worn front discs and pads,I would suspect theres something else amiss

[BRMark]

Strange you should have that if it is the brakes doing it,I would be surprised,did the fitter clean the hub surface thoroughly before putting the discs on ? have you had all wheels tyres checked to see if theres perhaps a warp in those.I can brake at speeds of around 90 without a problem on my worn front discs and pads,I would suspect theres something else amiss

The car has done 2k and 4 months totally fine since fitting - it's only recently it's started doing it again.

[kinggareth]

What EBC was suggesting is that if the disc was even fractions of an inch out of line then eventually you would end up with some parts of the brake disc slightly thinner than other parts. It would then be the brake pads trying to follow the wobbly line of the disc that causes the wheel wobble.
2,000 miles of use is about the time they said you would start to notice it, so maybe there is a bit of truth in it?

[kinggareth]

Since you've resurrected this thread Mark, i thought I should update on my EBC Yellowstuff experience.

My 300 miles run in period ended when I arrived at Castle Combe Circuit having covered 301.2 miles - good work huh?!?

I used my 3 warm up laps to do the final bedding in (to the slight annoyance of the bloke behind me!).
The first chicane on my first flying lap produced a bit of a brown trouser moment though when there appeared to be no braking as the pedal went soft. It came back and I made it round, but i was a little careful for the next few laps trying to build confidence in the middle pedal again.

The rest of the day they performed faultlessly, loads of stopping power and no sign of fade.

Since the track day though they haven't been the most confidence inspiring brakes. Very low speed stops are fine, but anything faster and you get some initial bite, followed by virtually nothing until you stomp on the pedal a bit more and it stops on its nose!

It may be a lack of heat still in the brakes, but it may also be that I need to bleed them again - which I might do this weekend.

[Fast Alan]

Did you have to bleed the system in the first place or did you upgrade the fluid your using ?

[kinggareth]

i swapped out the fluid for some 5.1

Was all fine, but maybe the track day has brought about some air that was hiding somewhere?

[spankyban]

Personally for road use the yellows aren't much cop unless you are running around at Brake neck speed - you need to work them hard to get them to work, they normally switch on where normal pads would be switching off - maybe the red stuff would be a good trade off? or some Mintex 1156's?

The air wouldn't help admittedly.

[kinggareth]

I drive like an old granny most of the time on the road, so never really get any heat in the brakes. They're fine for most of the driving i do, and if I ever need more stopping power i'll just push the pedal harder!

They worked great on the track day, so i'll just put up with a little inconvenience on the road.